[next] [prev] [up] Date: Fri, 12 May 95 10:35:04 -0400
[next] [prev] [up] From: der Mouse <mouse@collatz.mcrcim.mcgill.edu >
~~~ [prev] [up] Subject: Re: unsubscrib

Since Patrick <patrick@athos.med.auth.gr> went public with his[%]
complaint, I'll defend publicly, even though neither one is really
on-topic for cube-lovers. I hope Alan won't get too upset, and I
really hope this doesn't turn into a flamewar; cube-lovers has been
notably free of them in the time I've been on it.

[%] Gender assumed from the given name.

> I have a complaint to make about the way mr. Allan Bawden
(Whose name you consistently misspell, incidentally, thus being rather
rude to him yourself. You also make many (other) spelling mistakes,
but this one you make consistently.)
> treats cube-lovers.

1)Alot of people are not sure how to join a group when they start out
to join one. In fact in most cases the people are new to the
Internet , and in order to learn how to do things in the famous net ,
they can join a news group .
(I am not sugesting that joining a news group teaches them about the
internet but its one of the things they can do)

You seem to be under the impression that cube-lovers is a "news group".
It's not; it's a mailing list. If you don't know the difference and
can't find anything local to explain it, send me mail privately and
I'll try to explain it.

Yes, it's true, that's one of the things newbies can do. But that does
not mean that it's a good thing to do, nor that it's reasonable to try
to do it without first learning the correct way to do it.

And when someone stumbles into a milieu without having first bothered
to learn the rudiments of etiquiette as practiced therein, I don't feel
it's unreasonable to meet that someone with a certain degree of

2)Now if Mr Allan responds to their mistakes very rudly ,e.g

I notice your address is in Greece, so I'll excuse this on grounds of
ignorance. In English, one does not use titles (such as Mr.) with
given names. It would be just "Alan" (not "Allan", since he's Alan
Bawden, not Allan Bawden), or "Mr. Bawden".

>Date: Mon, 8 May 95 09:11:57 DST
>From: Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk
>Subject: unsubscribe
>To: CUBE-LOVERS@life.ai.mit.edu


For crying out loud, do -not- send administrative requests to the
-entire- mailing list. You're the third idiot to make this mistake
recently, so I guess I really do have to bother everybody myself
with a reminder.

3)"you're the third idiot--" etc I mean one gets quite upset about
the whole thing and one begins to question if it's worth it joining
the news group if they are so rude.

I don't consider it excessive to be a little harsh to people who are
being that rude. When Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk was
subscribed to the list to begin with, he[%] was sent a document
explicitly describing how to unsubscribe.

[%] Gender assumed from what looks like a given name in the address.

If a _subscribe_ request goes to the whole list, it's still someone
stumbling in in ignorance. But at least it can mostly be excused as
ignorance. An _unsubscribe_ request can't; anyone with cause to send
an unsubscribe request must already have subscribed, and thus been told
the correct way to unsubscribe.

4)I sugest Mr. Allan be firm but polite . It's best to keep the
correspondence bussness - like. In that way we still remain friends
,and quite understand what is expected of us to do.

I suggest you cut "Mr. Allan" some slack. I have participated in and
mailing lists for many years now, and overall, Alan Bawden is one of
the best list admins I've ever seen. Yes, it would be better if he[%]
could remain firm and polite in the face of such provocation. But
(apparently unlike you) I don't expect perfection from him.

[%] Again, gender assumed from the given name. (English needs a good
gender-neutral animate set of pronouns.)

Perhaps that merely reflects on the poor crop of list admins available.
I don't think so; I certainly doubt I would do much better. Perhaps
you feel you could do better; I invite you to try. Start up a list of
your own and see how it goes.

5) It sounds like Mr. Allan thinks that the qube member doesn't

I'm inclined to agree. If Frank=Lindgreen%DATLING%HHASPR@lng.hha.dk
had thought enough to bother rereading the instructions sent when he
subscribed to the list, or even had bothered to learn basic netiquette
for Internet mailing lists in general, he would have known better than
to send the unsubscribe request to the whole list.

For people interested in cubing thats an insult. We think of
ourselves as people who can think --on an overage better than most

"can think" != "do think". As is often amply demonstrated on the net.

Send all administrative requests to:
Everybody got that?

This is important enough to bear re-quoting, I feel.

der Mouse


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